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Index > Engine/Drivetrain > Thread: how do you identify your engine?
Thread: how do you identify your engine? [' This thread is 2 pages long: (1) 2 ']
fift7


Newbie
Posts: 9
posted January 17, 2007 02:29 PM

how do you identify your engine?

i know it is a 13b but i bought it for an engine swap, and the previous owner said it was out of a late seventies pick up truck, which leads me here, i have also bought two other 13b's but they are the 6 port i believe. anyways just need to know what year it is to get parts i am considering breaking it down to re gasket it. where do you guys buy gasket sets none of my local parts stores have gasket sets. and i have an auto trans counterweight but it is for a mid eighties model, will it work? thanks, seth

       
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repu510


Hauling
Posts: 141
posted January 17, 2007 03:35 PM

identify your engine

check w/ Atkins, Mazdatrix, Racing Beat, and even the dealer. All of them sell rebuild and gasket sets. They will also help you identify which engine you have. Without getting too technical, internally most 13B engines pre-85 are very similar.

       
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Tom93R1


Redlining
Posts: 458
posted January 17, 2007 08:15 PM
Edited By: Tom93R1 on 17 Jan 2007 20:39

With the intake manifold off look at the intake ports. The 4-port will look like this below, the intake ports being at the top.


The 6-port will have a total of 6 intake ports, the front and rear ports will be 2 small round ports stacked on top of each other while the middle 2 ports will be the same as the pic.

As for identifying new 4-port vs old 4-port the motor mounts are probably the easiest way to tell. The old 4 ports have no provisions for motor mounts on the sides but have 4 bolts sticking out the front cover. The newer 6 and 4 ports have a couple possibilities. Either the motor mount points are some large studs sticking out the sides of the center plate in 86-91 motors, or there are several large holes at the rear bottom of the motor through the oil pan where they bolt to in the case of the 13B-REW (4-port).

The counter weight will only work on the same generation and model of motor it came out of. The rotors for different years were different weights so you have to match them up.

As for gasket kits, I am co-owner of Arizona Rotary Rockets. Email me using the button under this link and let me know what you want. I will let you know what we can do for a price.

hope this helps
____________


'74 lawn-green
4-port 13b
Weber 48DCO
Racing Beat Header
Magnaflow
resonator/amplifier
really loud!

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klaus42


Rotorhead
Posts: 1877
posted January 18, 2007 11:32 AM

Other clues to engine ID...

...include whether or not your steels are of the later, dull grey in color (unpainted) nitrided variety, or not... as opposed to the earlier (originally painted black) ones.

(There is such a thing as a 'later' early 4-port 13B *with* nitrided side steels; I believe those came over from Japan, likely as used replacement engines...)

Also, the 'MAZDA' logo script on the tops of the rotor housings is in 'capitals' on the oldschool ones, and in the 'eighties' 'lower case' style on the newer.

Yet another clue: Do your spark plug holes have 'eyebrow' bosses in the castings, preventing easy use of certain types of plugs? I believe those were the '84/'85 GSL-SE housings...

(If it came with a fuel injection intake, it's not the early model!)

Save that auto counterweight: It may be of use in combination with a lightweight aftermarket flywheel. ;)




       
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fift7


Newbie
Posts: 9
posted January 18, 2007 02:37 PM

does the engine ID number mean anything? it is something like 472711 , and i dont remember whether it is all capitals but i dont believe so. it is the 4 big port style, and i bought a 4 port intake already for it, can the 6 port engine use the 4 port intake as well? i have an engine that is aorund 1987. can i just block off all of the extra smog and fuel injection stuff and put the carbed 4 port intake on that motor? thanks for all the responses

oh btw i checked the az rotary site, work looks real good

       
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klaus42


Rotorhead
Posts: 1877
posted January 19, 2007 10:13 AM

ID #:

Depends on *whose* ID # that is. Frequently, re-manufacturers of engines & such will stamp their own numbers...

My reference to CAPITALS was in regards to the factory 'MAZDA' logo lettering on your rotor housings *only*.

Manifolds need to match up to specific intake porting, (hence the term 'port matching' in the performance mod/machining world...)...

Some folks *may* indeed have set up their 6-port motors to combine the secondary porting into an effective four... but, I'll wager it sucks fuel, and limits performance in it's own ways.

I'd at least consult with an experienced engine builder like Dan Atkins prior to mix-and-matching anything.

       
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fift7


Newbie
Posts: 9
posted January 20, 2007 04:21 PM

i went by my shop today where my engine is stored, and found several more things, all of the ports look exactly like the one in the picture above. what is the rectangular opening underneath the two center ports? what are the two holes in between the intake ports, i would assume they are fuel injection, is this correct? then i also imagine this is not an original REPU engine, it has a magnetic pick up distributor number "N249 T5T60379" with "3601" igniters? It has an "R5" on the front and rear painted black housings and has the number "5" on the rotor housings. there is a "D" and an "F" stamped into each of the rotor housings, but i believe they are from a rebuilder as it also has a warranty voiding overheating tab that rebuilders usually put on. Oh and will my racing beat header cover those ports below the exhaust ports? Don't know if this changes anything but on the front right of the engine where the oil line comes out, it has a bolted on hard line that goes up to the "beehive" oil cooler, and just to the left of this oil line and on the front of the engine there is another rectangular port, maybe 3/4 inch by 1 1/2 with the long side going up and down and having a stud top and bottom. it also has the 4 studs for engine mounting on the front housing. and has the unshrouded plug style holes.

with all that information, now i need to know where i can get a rear main oil seal, if the water pump and housing from my 87 era engine will work, it has the front pulley on it so i also assume it has the front counter weight on it. is there some marking on it that will tell me which auto counterweight i need?

and is there an adapter that bolts on to where the beehive is now and allows me to relocate the oil filter to another location?

sorry for such a long post

       
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klaus42


Rotorhead
Posts: 1877
posted January 21, 2007 01:36 PM
Edited By: klaus42 on 21 Jan 2007 13:42

Sounds like...

... a previous owner did some funky things (?): Without seeing your rotor housings (which style of 'mazda' script on them???), I can't ID them 100% accurately. Your 'R-5' plates *are* oldschool. If by 'beehive' oilcooler you mean the one that the filter mounts to, that is the (IMHO, bullshit) model that came on several years of first-gen rx-7's. This 'cooler' was and is *insufficient*. Proper oil cooling is absoultely essential to keeping a rotary alive, long-term, as they typically reject a third of their heat thru the oil... If it was run *in addition to* a proper oil cooler (mounted generally below the radiator), that might be good news.
'Holes' 'in between' intake ports you describe are likely the engine coolant ports which mate up to ones in the intake manifold. This is the location where 'water O-ring' failure typically takes place upon overheating. I would not trust the rebuilder-applied 'overheat' indicators -- generally, these were stuck on in improper locations to be relevant for the rotary, and might even be a clue the engine was not (re)built by a rotary-specific, knowledgeable/desirable shop. That rectangular port on the center housing is also a heat riser/transfer port... RB headers typically *do* cover additional unnessecary holes around the exhaust ports. Electronic ignition distributer upgrade is desireable (unless it's the one year that had remote-mount ignitors, prone to cross-triggering), and not nessecarily indicative of anything else about the engine...

***Did you ever get to see and hear this engine run, in person? Assume nothing!

Suggest your best bet still remains running all the details by a respected, reputable rotary-specific shop.

2nd-gen rx-7 bits generally don't belong on an early 4-port.

The real key, to me, is this: regardless of the combination, or not, of components in this engine -- was it built correctly, and did it survive it's previous owner(s) since then? Condition is everything, and there may be no way to tell until you're able to run it... and find out the hard way...

       
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fift7


Newbie
Posts: 9
posted January 21, 2007 03:46 PM

Thanks for the answers klaus42, about what years do those housings put me at, and as far as i know these are the older rotor housings (in picture) mine are the ones after that that have the more standard mazda logo,

and no i have never seen this engine run, and also i have the IDA weber manifold that does not allow for coolant passage, do i block those holes off? does RB make something for that? i sprayed wd40 into the intake ports and turned the engine it seemed to have even compression all the way around. also does RB make an adapter that will allow me to move the oil filter location?

for clarity the engine in the pic is not mine it is the only pic i could find of what i believe to be the older housing logo, which is not the one i have either.


       
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klaus42


Rotorhead
Posts: 1877
posted January 22, 2007 10:55 AM

What is pictured...

...are the 'oldschool', '74 - '78, 'CAPITALISED' 'MAZDA' logo rotor housings. If what you have looks different, they're likely GSL-SE ('84-'85), or newer. Unless they're earlier ('79 on ?) "j-spec" ones from Japan. Tearing down the motor in question would allow for unequivocal, positive ID. Everything's a crapshoot, IMHO, with a used engine of indeterminate build, origins, and condition. Could be good, could be a smoker... never know for certain until it's running.

Racing Beat makes lots of good handy bits like block-off plates, etc., etc., etc. I have zero personal experience with the Weber IDA's; they have plenty. Suggest contacting them, and investing in their catalogue and expertise!


       
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fift7


Newbie
Posts: 9
posted January 23, 2007 07:31 PM
Edited By: fift7 on 23 Jan 2007 19:40

thanks again for responses, i went to my shop today, and cracked a couple pictures, and got some info from my parts, here is a pic of my front cover


i had a question as to what the passage is under where the oil comes out and goes to the "beehive"


and is it possible that this is a 86-88 motor, as that is the counterweight that was with it when i bought it, new in package from mazda part number "N327-11-521A" which according to my kennedy engineering book is correct for 86-88 NA motors.

just for the heck of it a side pic

as you can see below the rear trailing plug is the overheat tab from the rebuilder

my plans are at this point to remove everything on the engine, plug holes and passages, pressure wash the engine, detail, and paint, put a carb and ignition setup on it, then try and fire it up.

so my next questions will be about ignition, although i have been looking at the dlfdids thread

oh and i ordered my racing beat catalog this past weekend

       
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fift7


Newbie
Posts: 9
posted January 23, 2007 07:35 PM

um nevermind i just figured out that that passage in the front is actually half of my motor mount, my bad

       
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klaus42


Rotorhead
Posts: 1877
posted January 24, 2007 10:45 AM

Don't you mean...

..."below rear *leading* plug'...? Actually, this might be one of those rare instances where the overheat indicator was placed in a reasonable location on a rotary...(?)

You couldn't pay me to *pressure wash* a 'plugged' engine that was still presumed to be good to run -- WAY to bad odds you'll hose inside. Stick to a careful hand cleaning! Castrol super clean or similar, and a brush...

Still unknown to me which combination of what year parts you have there. (Anyone...???) Obvious: R-5 plates. 'Bogus' "beehive" oil 'cooler' from a 1st-gen 12A -- IMHO, *not* a good way to keep an engine alive -- unless it *also* had a proper, front-mount (below the radiator?) 'real' oil cooler installed, as well. (Unlikely?)

Later model innards could very well have been used. But, if not properly set up and clearanced --let alone whatever did/did not occur during the previous life of this motor-- would not nessecarily be good.

Someone else may have more/better/more specific advice for you... (?)

Best, --K.

       
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ovquick


Redlining
Posts: 253
posted January 24, 2007 01:16 PM

What's My Engine

Waaaaaaaay back, I was shown an NA13B that was purportedly from a forklift. It had a clutch and a fluid coupling/torque converter like an automatic. I have never seen any documentation that this application existed, but the engine was certainly strange looking.
____________
Manteca Mazda Asylum
where a boy and his cat live, without adult supervision

       
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trochoid


1st Gear
Posts: 19
posted February 02, 2007 03:48 AM

In the 1st gen secttion on the RX7club forum, Jeff20B started a thread for identifying the early 13B and 12A engines. I have also included pics in that thread to some of the 1st gen and S4 engines with several side by side pics of the different housing and irons.

I suggest doing a search under threads started by Jeff and taking a look at the the pics. This should help you identify which years your engines are.

       
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fift7


Newbie
Posts: 9
posted February 16, 2007 08:47 PM

cleaned up and painted and moving right along, ordered some gaskets, lined up an oil pan, and rear counter weight. got all my ignition components coming or already delivered, just need 1 more j 109 for the DLDFDIS(sp?) setup. ordered a double sheave for my alternator then bought an extra now i want a complete pulley setup(maybe later, i ended up painting the entire engine in a cast iron color, i also just got a second gen oil cooler and lines and need to know if i can take the bolt out at the bottom rear of my engine and put the cooler on it like it would be on an rx7?





       
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klaus42


Rotorhead
Posts: 1877
posted February 17, 2007 10:43 AM

Looks like...

...you'll be hooking it up to a VW transmission?

Should be no reason you can't plumb in a proper oil cooler.
Whatever you do, make sure you have that used oil cooler & lines (best replaced with new) flushed *thoroughly* prior to install! (And remember to remove that paint from your intake manifold, etc., mating surfaces.)

       
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fift7


Newbie
Posts: 9
posted February 17, 2007 07:43 PM

sure enuff its getting hooked into a 57 vw beetle, and by flushed you mean, at home or professionally, cann i do it with water? at about 175 degrees and as much psi as it needs? and i will clean all mating surfaces

       
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trochoid


1st Gear
Posts: 19
posted February 18, 2007 08:56 AM

I use 3-4 cans of brake cleaner to flush them out. Take out the thermostat, replace the plug, stand it on end and fill. Let it soak, shake carefully, drain, repeat. Using compressed air will help push debris out once it's loosened up.

       
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klaus42


Rotorhead
Posts: 1877
posted February 18, 2007 06:19 PM

That beetle...

...ought to have wings!

       
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