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Thread: what to swap, what to swap?
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dodge48
1st Gear
They call me the "Anti-Honda"
Posts: 41
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posted February 12, 2003 04:46 PM |
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what to swap, what to swap?
Ive posted on here before but since I dont remeber my password I have to use a new name. I have an old 1976 ford courier with the old 4 banger in it which im not to fond of. Heres my problem. I can put a rotary engine in it, or I can build a 350 375 hp engine to put in it. I like the thought of the rotary but what makes these engines so special? Im just looking for some comments and opinions on the subject. Hopefully some good ones to pull me the right way on building a good drive train for this truck. Thanks
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repuguru
Redlining
Posts: 319
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posted February 12, 2003 08:55 PM |
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Well the REPU is unique in the fact its the only truck with the rotary. The Rotary on the other hand is unique in the fact that 99% of everything else has piston motors. And lest we forget that the 1.3 liter 13B produces roughly what a 4.0 liter 6 cylinder produces. Stock.
But I am also up for a Courier with a V8. That would be alot of fun.
A supercharged 302 would be perfect.
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Klaus43
Rotorhead
Posts: 1259
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posted February 12, 2003 09:02 PM |
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Depends whatcha like...
Do you wanna drag race, or do you wanna autocross? A lighter-weight powerplant that revs like a mutha, or yet more nose-weight and still no hookup in back? Gonna tub it?
Drive it around town a lot? Prefer gobs of torque to all else? Or, perhaps, you'd enjoy redlining second, flooring third, and being gone while the guy in the newer v-8 powered ride is eating your dust...still trying to connect.
Anything can be built for a price...rotary or piston. I like 1300cc and 3 moving parts--and I'll win a bet that I can take out my distributor and still race you without it!
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admin
Administrator
Posts: 446
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posted February 13, 2003 03:11 PM |
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Personally
Well, the ford courier could get a new ford OHC V8, which would keep the ford 'all ford.' But, it would be trick to put the rotary in there.
It all repends on what you want to do with the truck...
You'd have a nicely balanced, high power-to weight ratio with the rotary.
You'd have a low-end slugish hauler with the V8.
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dodge48
1st Gear
They call me the "Anti-Honda"
Posts: 41
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posted February 13, 2003 04:36 PM |
 Edited By: dodge48 on 13 Feb 2003 17:15 |
Now see this is what im talking about, I like to hear your opinions on this subject since there is a lot of ways to go. Heres the deal. Im a v8 person ya know. Why you might ask? well I just like the sound and the hp. Yes, I will tub it. Im building it as an around town little ride to make the annoying ppl in rice rockets feel bad about themselves as they see me fly by them.(god i hate rice rockets) Like I said I like rotary's, there cool and diffrent and are very efficient if you ask me b/c its just less moving parts. I thought of a rotary but most of the time around here I can get a hold of about and 85-86 model 12a. There about 107 hp 105 tourqe, correct me if im wrong, im sure you will. I can upgrade that make more hp and all or I can build a 350. (13b's are harder to come by here) I can make 375 hp with the v8, yet its been done so much its just been run into the ground. If anyone has anymore opinions let me know i like to hear the feedback. 1 more thing since all of you are the rotary buffs, would a 13b in it go faster than a built 375hp 350 chevy? Im sure you all know. Thanks for the posts.
(let me add so you can understand where im coming from on this. there is a 302 powered 95 ranger that i dont care for and i would like to shut him up. i just want to build this thing to go faster than him too, plus shut up the rice rockets)
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roaddancer
Hauling
Posts: 127
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posted February 13, 2003 07:16 PM |
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Now heres the deal. The courier was all mazda to begin with, with slightly less power than the piston mazda version. If you gotta have a v8, go with the buick/olds/rover aluminum block. It can be easily massaged to 300 plus hp, weighs about as much as a cast iron 4 and won't trash the handling anywhere near as much. Of course that is also true of the massaged rotaries, and they are easier to acquire and to live with. The buick version was too knowledge intense for the american drivers of 1962. (You actually needed to read and understand the owners manual!!) Rover debugged GMs manufacturing errors and it's been used in several Brit vehicles. Now if they had just learned to wire the cars....
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Klaus43
Rotorhead
Posts: 1259
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posted February 14, 2003 10:46 AM |
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How much can you spend on a motor?
It would definitely be worth your effort to get a 13B if you're gonna do it up rotary-wise. Doesn't matter what's available near you--best option's to spend with a reputable, longstanding, major rotary shop...Atkins comes to mind--no personal exp., but they do also manufacture superchargers for rotaries from the ground up! With proper porting, oil mods, proper seals, clearancing, a light flywheel, increased oil cooling, etc., etc,...you could have a real screamer on your hands. But, it does cost money... and it's just as easy to destroy a rotary as anything else--proper break-in, not exceeding the rpm's it was purpose-built for, etc., etc., all crucial.
Injected or carb'd? Another dollar-available vs. results obtainable question...
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dodge48
1st Gear
They call me the "Anti-Honda"
Posts: 41
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posted February 14, 2003 11:58 AM |
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If I go for a rotary swap it would wait untill i could find a good 13b turbo from a junkyard. As far as mods go, since it is computer controlled, it would be limited. Maybe a chip and a little more boost. Im more of a carbureted person but the fuel injected engines do make more horses.
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Klaus43
Rotorhead
Posts: 1259
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posted February 14, 2003 04:29 PM |
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I'd be wary...
...of salvaged junkyard turbo motors. But, you might find a decent score...just too iffy to rely on it, esp. since turbo's don't tend to increase engine life expectancy. Good luck!
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dhood
Hauling
Posts: 134
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posted February 14, 2003 04:58 PM |
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Couldn't resist to weigh in on this. Most people are not aware of how well a REPU handles. They think, trucks are trucks. But since I got my REPU, old as it is, I can't *don't want* to replace it with anything else. Its all because of the performance and handling. It really is a sports car in disguise. Does anybody remember the Mazda ad where the REPU comes flying off a hill in lumber country? The nose didn't dive down: even a cast iron four banger would do a one point landing on a jump like that.
I'm not so sure you'd get a REPU out of a Courier/rotary setup because there were significant suspension and track differences between the two. Brakes too. Might be a fun experiment though. But if you just want to race at a stop light, I'd do the rotary for sure, more bolt-on horsepower and cheaper power than a piston.
And in California, 1973 is the earliest year requiring annual smog checks. Doubt you could register it in California after the swap.
Just some things to think about. Why not get a junk REPU and transplant the good Courier stuff into it?
Whatever, let us know what you decide.
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repuguru
Redlining
Posts: 319
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posted February 14, 2003 05:27 PM |
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You can get 375hp out of a Turbo 13b.
How long it lives depends on what you want to spend in preperation to do that though.
And we all know the golden rule of" no substitue for cubic inches". Although I don't let that worry me much. I have always liked the underdog.
The real question is cost?
If you have the money do the Rotary. There is no question as to the benefit of the smaller motor in the handling of the truck. I'd search out a REPU though. It will be much easier of an install.
If not, then a small block in a Courier will give you the effect you desire at a fraction of the cost.
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dodge48
1st Gear
They call me the "Anti-Honda"
Posts: 41
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posted February 14, 2003 06:29 PM |
Edited By: dodge48 on 14 Feb 2003 18:39
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I live in Ga and its 78 and up years for smog around here. my courier is a 76 so I have no problem since i dont have to have it emissions checked. For me to build a 350 its about 460-500 dollars to have it bored and the heads built, plus 300 bucks for a kit that inludes everything i need. then I have all the dress up goodies, but for a plain looking 350 375 hp v8 im looking at 800-1000 without the tranny. If I can get a good 13b and tranny out of a junkyard for under 1000 dollars that would set me ahead. Besides a chip, porting, and more boost, I cant think of to many other things that one can do to a rotary. Im sure you all can prove me way wrong on that opinion though, and im sure you will. A 90 model 13b is about 230hp @ 6000 rpm and 200 ft/lbs@4000 rpm of tourqe is it not? What im mainly getting at here is if i put one of these 13b's in my truck, will it be as fast as the 375 hp v8. and if mods are involved to achieve this, what would these mods cost? Im just looking for your opinions on this im sure ya'll have bought many of things for you engines. And oh ya, I will let you know what my choice will be. (oh ya 1 more thing. the reasong for me not buying a repu and just swaping bodies is 1) they are hard to come by around here 2) if i go for a rotary i would like a later model efi engine. I have considerd the idea though, no doubt.
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Always remember in life: If at first you don’t succeeded, sky diving isn't for you.
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Klaus43
Rotorhead
Posts: 1259
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posted February 14, 2003 10:13 PM |
Edited By: klaus42 on 14 Feb 2003 22:17
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REPU's may be few in your area...
...but finding one anywhere with an original motor still in great running shape, (and not smoking too much...), is rarer still. So, don't let that stop you! If a REPU you desire, the injected engine update is a really functional way to go. Just make sure you don't toss any of the 'junk' parts you might take off one you accquire... Personally, I can't wait to get my hands on one of the new 'renesis' motors outta an rx-8, and drop that into an oldschool car or REPU--it'll RIP! Too bad we've all still gotta wait...
Perspective: A J-spec turbo 13B (used) just went for $1075 on ebaymotors... not the 'ultimate' in rotaries porting-wise, but could've been a good driveable option, or starting point...
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dodge48
1st Gear
They call me the "Anti-Honda"
Posts: 41
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posted February 15, 2003 07:18 AM |
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There is a 85 12a motor on ebay right now that ends tommorow. I have thought about that one but its only a 12a motor and i desire atleast a 13b.
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Always remember in life: If at first you don’t succeeded, sky diving isn't for you.
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dodge48
1st Gear
They call me the "Anti-Honda"
Posts: 41
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posted February 15, 2003 06:58 PM |
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Ok, lets say I have decided to go with a rotary. I really wanted a efi motor to put in there but the more i started thinking about it i realized just how much s*** is on that engine. And even though the efi does make more hp, a carbured engine might be the way to go since its so much simpler. What do you guys think?
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Always remember in life: If at first you don’t succeeded, sky diving isn't for you.
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Draggin_2600i
Redlining
Posts: 235
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posted February 15, 2003 11:37 PM |
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Carbed is alot easier, and there are kits to convert the newer EFI engine to Carb.. Or you can get a Stand alone Engine Management System, and bypass all that extra Junk, but it gets pricey...
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repuguru
Redlining
Posts: 319
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posted February 16, 2003 07:50 AM |
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I live in Ga. Dodge48 and if you would like I'll search out a REPU for you. They are around, just getting scarce.
I think what you are asking, pound for pound is 375hp the same in a rotary as 375hp is in a piston motor? Am I right?
You know I used to pick on much stronger cars with my first RX7. It had a 12a and a header. Maybe good for 135hp? Maybe? Anyway, I found out that any thing above 5 liters N/A or 2 liters w/turbo was questionable to race, but every thing else was fair game.
Thats what made me like the rotary. The fact that a 1.1 Liter engine was capable of producing a power output to put me on par with most of what was roaming the streets.
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dodge48
1st Gear
They call me the "Anti-Honda"
Posts: 41
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posted February 16, 2003 08:29 AM |
Edited By: dodge48 on 16 Feb 2003 08:44
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basically yes you are correct. I want to build this truck right the first time. what i am afraid of is i go and get a rotary, spend all this time and money putting it in, and then it not be as good as the 350 chevy in terms of hp and tourqe. I appriciate the offer of trying to find me a repu but if i go to do this i would like to use a newer model rotary 86 and up. Infact im pretty sure by now that i will do a rotary swap instead of the v8 since it might cost less, which is a big factor. I just want to make sure before i go and do all this that i won't get done and then have a 2nd thought of maybe that v8 might have been the way to go. But like i said i am leanin heavily toward the rotary im just not sure which one to get. I know in 86 and up (which is the years i would pull it from) they made a couple of engine choices. the N/A 13b and the twin turbo 13b. Obviously the turbo would make more hp, but buying from a junkyard any turbo engine has its problems, as anyone knows. Espically if the car is there and doesnt seem to have any body damage. But anyways what would style engine would you all recomend for a swap? thanks again for all your posts and time i really appricate all of your input on this subject
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Always remember in life: If at first you don’t succeeded, sky diving isn't for you.
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nwaco
Redlining
Posts: 407
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posted February 16, 2003 09:20 AM |
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C'mon, let's cut to the chase here.....
With all due respect, you asked, so here is my opinion.
First, If your looking to swap an engine and save money, you might as well forget a Twin-Turbo(refering to a '93+). If, and I do mean IF you find one (and it most probably will NOT be in a junkyard), the engine alone is going to cost more than the truck, basic mods, and an 86-92 13B, turbo or not.
Second, If you want a rotary engine, you might as well get a REPU chassis, and build it on that as you will get much more in resale eventually for it, than any modified courier.
Third, There was no factory Twin-turbo engine until 93.
Fourth, Any rotary engine will fit in a REPU a lot easier than to mod a courier. Remember the tranny tunnel is wider in the REPU to accomodate the bigger bellhousing, and the frame was made to accept a rotary with "mods" being little to nothing.
If it were me, and quite frankly, I am in work on just that on one of my trucks, I would get a REPU, choose a 13B, turbo II or NA, and build it right, and put in an after-market engine management system, then enjoy it. There will always be someone that will beat you, but street racing kids in Hondas is the last reason I would spend the time or money. Do it for youself.
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dodge48
1st Gear
They call me the "Anti-Honda"
Posts: 41
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posted February 16, 2003 10:13 AM |
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well i dont have to worry about resale, i never sell any of the vechiles i own. Dont get me wrong, im not building it to beat a honda, hell i can do that in my daily driver. And as far as comming across a motor, that isnt to much of a problem. where i live there is alot of junkyards. I go to alabama alot too. and trust me, there is alot of junkyards there i hit up everytime i go.
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Always remember in life: If at first you don’t succeeded, sky diving isn't for you.
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